Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1087
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Posted - 2013.12.15 18:12:00 -
[1] - Quote
Couple things:
Lonegnr wrote:Wall o' text
[...] 1)very niche (read, failing) game, 2)that gives both CCP 3)and players what they want. 4)The people who don't like this idea tend to be the people that don't intend to pay[...]5)Just like every other F2P on the map: you pay more, you get more.
- Niche != failing. Dusts numbers are not that bad compared to other f2p games in the genre. Also, not an argument even it true.
- More on that later.
- Not all players want respecs. It's just oh so easy to make a thread about it without searching for existing ones first. . People are tired of this topic and repeating themselves dozens of times. This does not mean that there is a general consensus to the pro side, far from it i'd argue.
- You cannot know this and it's also irelevant. Characterizing nay-sayers as "cheap" is no argument for respecs; or anything really.
- Doesn't mean that they have to offer something that bypasses game mechanics. Purely cosmetic models tend to work amazingly well (e.g. lol, dota2, tf2, poe). No reason to offer respecs over anything else.
Lonegnr wrote:
1)[...]unlimited sp, with an unlimited amount of time[...]6-7 months[...]
2) [Dust is purely PVP without escape]
- Interesting but irelevant i'm afraid. What does the retention rate of another game have to do with this one's skillsystem? The point is that unlike other games' systems the tree is never ever locking you out of anything. That's in part why both games get away without such a function.
- All of this is completely true. No objection here. That means we need PvE right? 'cause respecs will not help with any of this since affected players have no respeccable SP to begin with.
Lonegnr wrote:
1)Do we still have unlimited skills as you said we do? No, we don't. 2) All players leave once they've grown bored or sick of the game.Considering Dust 514 is essentially still in early beta[...]
- Semantics. There's more skills/SP that can realistically be skilled into (around 8 years fully boosted and always capped. Actually more by now). This is by design.
- So you list a number of legitimate concerns that each would greatly improve the game and player retention, yet what you chose to argue for is respecs? Respecs do not solve any of these. Doing 3% more damage will not make 13fps any more bearable: PC will remain unplayable wether you're in a tank or a dropship. I don't see how that does any good to long term player retention.
Lonegnr wrote:
[...]A)given their current development pace I'm just gonna go ahead and throw that option [of improving the game] out the window.Well, they can offer respecs. Let people jump into the flavor of the month, or whatever spec they want:
1) They'll have to pay for it,
2) The average player won't even have that much SP to shift around,
3) Hilariously enough many will be happy to pay.
A) I can't see how anyone can have this perception and still see any reason to play the game. Anyway. I'm not the only one who doesn't share this notion so, no, don't throw the "devs be devin'" option out if you please, thank you.
- Go on...
- Which is exactly why respecs will do none of the things everyone hopes they'd do:
New players don't have the SP to make use of respecs to begin with. That kills the money argument for this segment, and the NPR argument singlehandedly. New players, by and large, will not profit from paid respecs, quite to the contratry.
Currently, balancing and new gear comes with an SP cost to stay adapted. This means that maintaining proto can be quite costly for vets. Maintaining STD/ADV is easy, even for newer players. Balance changes lead to less gear discrepancy.
With respecs: Respec 50m SP => spec just 12m (as per your quoted segment) into current fotm => spec into another when something changes again => and again, and again...The older your character, the more usefull respecs get. Stomping just made easier.
Same with the retention argument. Fragile new players won't pay 20 bucks for respecs when they can correct most early mistakes in a matter of hours/days => no benefit, no solution for most specific issues.
20m plus vets are already "core gamers", with comunity and (possibly) responsibility. If someone like that leaves; lack of respecs is not the reason => huge benefit, no specific issues respecs even would solve.
3) This might be true but i highly doubt that they are benefitial to them or the game as a whole. Btw, Paid respecs would directly compete with boosters and scale with character age whereas boosters do not. CCP might end up with the same amount of cash, paid by the same people, for a different product and there is always a point where a respec has more utility than the equivalent worth in boosters => less money made.
Lonegnr wrote:
1)Is this a suitable measure for the game?[...]
2)Does it brake the game?
a)No; the people doing this would mostly be those who have less SP to begin with.[...]
3)But it'll give players unfair advantages![...]No, it doesn't[...]
1)The character bazaar is merely regulating what would happen either way. It does also mean that for every fotm char bought by one person, another one just lost this very character so FOTM chasing doesn't affect the game as a whole. Respecs create FOTM viable chars and implify any and all inherent imbalances, making reasonable balance more difficult to achieve and much, much more easy to break.
2)
a)You claimed the oppsite just a few lines earlier. And i think this one here is wrong.
3)Paying to negate any risk or commitment, actually any consequence of the skillsystem, whose sole purpose is to
enforce consequence is an unfair advantage. New Eden is not an excuse for everything.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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Malkai Inos
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
1087
|
Posted - 2013.12.15 19:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
Now on to the proposal voiced in the OP:
Having some form of "try before you buy" option might be a handy thing to have but i'm afraid your proposal might not be as practical as one might expect.
As has been said earlier, per that idea I couldn't try anything that really differs from whatever I'm already skilled into.
Changing races or roles (or both) usually requires more than one skill to produce a half viable fit and the limitation to lvl1 would only allow me to try skills that most of the time are so inexpensive that the investment i'd be able to undo would be inconsequencial anyways.
Last but not least. AUR and LP suits/gear already allow you to test most std/adv fits and gear with no/low skill investment so that the issue you're trying to tackle is somewhat solved already through existing mechanics.
You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
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